Question 1:

HI,
Does anyone has Nos on there 240sx? I want to know how everything worked out. I am really interested in Nos. Thanks

RE:  -1

I have a 100hp shot of NOS on my KA24DE. I got the 5030FI NOS kit as a B-day present from my girly! How many of you have partners like that? Oh, sorry back to the subject..

Before you do anything to your car, I would make sure your engine is in good condition. Second, find out as much as possible about NOS, then buy the kit that suits your needs. And if you are not comfortable installing the kit yourself,don't risk it, have a shop put it in. Also DO NOT run more than 100hp on the stock fuel pump, it is already maxed out!

I've had this NOS kit on for a while, and there are no detrimental effects so far. I dragged the car down the 1/4 about 10 times with NOS! My best run was 14.1 @ 100mph w/1.9 60ft w/ MT ET Slicks. This run was made with a full interior AND a 300lbs audio system! Est. total car weight during the run is close to 3400lbs.

Does anyone want to see some pictures of my NOS setup? Trust exhuast? Custom cold air intake? I might put up a web page If I get enough
responses...

Mike Y.

RE: -2

I've got NOS also with 75 shots only. Runs great, best time of 13.8.
Will

RE: -3

Go with the 5030-FI, this is a direct port 80hp-100hp kit that will work a lot better than the 5122. Dry manifold setups tend to have uneven NOS/FUEL distribution, which can hamper performance and reliability. 80hp is definitely safe for the 240's engine. But make sure you install and tune it correctly!! If not, you know.....

Mike Y.

On Wed, 5 Nov 1997, Shawn Schembri wrote:

>
> This is what is recomended to me for my 95 240sx se
>
> 5122 - standard setup
> dry manifold
> 60-50 hp..
>
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> * Shawn Schembri *
> * Email - [email protected] or [email protected] *
> * 240sx CCA *
> * http://www.240sx.org *
> * ICQ #4779006 *
> * Aol Instant Messenger Address: sshawn09 *
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Sum more info.....

Nitrous is composed of two nitrogen atoms and 1 oxygen atom and in a "nitrous system" is in liquid form. The advantage of using nitrous is two fold. 1) It introduces more oxygen into the incoming charge in a form that initially does not occupy too much space. 2) Upon vaporization it lowers the temperature of the air causing a denser charge entering the cylinder.

To take advantage of nitrous you must have a few other elements in "the system". In order to help vaporization, just as in vaporizing gasoline, the nitrous must be in as small a liquid droplet as possible. This is done with the nozzle or "fogger". The atomization of nitrous into smaller droplets increases the surface area to achieve better evaporation. Heat is absorbed in the vaporization process lowering the surrounding air resulting in a denser charge (packing more air (oxygen) into the cylinder than at the higher temperature). The denser charge and introduction of additional oxygen into the charge allows for the oxidation or burning of fuel. This is the catch. Additional fuel must be supplied to prevent going dangerously lean. The whole combination of additional oxygen, denser charge, and denser fuel results in much more
force being exerted on the piston per power stroke (torque & horsepower).

Nitrous entering the cylinder in liquid form does nothing if it isn't evaporated. Which leads to the "less nitrous=more power" statement by [email protected] This may be correct if the kit attains better vaporization and better fuel/air ratio.

More horsepower is going to put more stress/strain on the engine any way you look at it. I can't say if Michael is correct but I believe he is trying to say that by mounting the nos nozzles closer you will have a more direct power increase causing a higher impulse (large force over a
very short time) on the engine versus "ramping" the power up gradually over a "few tenths" of a second.

Sounds like the backfires and other problems are tuning problems. The nitrous itself only changes the operating parameter of the engine.  Those conditions, if not accounted for, will cause problems-potentially disastrous ones. With all the oxygen introduced (N2O contains 33% oxygen versus 21% in normal air) you will be running incredibly lean instantly without compensating with the correct amount of fuel.  Aluminum, forged or otherwise, does not like to see this for very long.

Well, I have seen how people get yelled at for preaching about things they haven't seen first hand so I'll quit now. I've researched this extensively, was given lectures at school in an I.C.E. class and thought I would expand on the chemistry and mechanics behind it. I just can't
help with the tuning part. Caleb

I have known many people who are using NOS systems, and nothing has gone wrong. A NOS kit does not cause backfires on its own. Your friend must have put it in wrong or not tune it correctly. Also, I'm not so sure about less nitrous=more power. Nitrous and fuel are directly related to hp. Depending on where you mount you fogger nozzels, you will get a different power curve.

Situation one: You install you fogger jet 2 inches from the intake valve, you will get excellent start up torque, but more strain on you drivetrain. Most of the NOS that gets into you engine, is still in somewhat of a liquid form. More concentrated. More initial power.
Situation two: You install the fogger jet 6 inches from the intake valve on the intake runner, you will get a milder start, but peak hp will be about the same. Reason is, when nitrous is compressed it is a liquid. In a liquid form, it is denser and so is more concentrated. When NOS is ejected out of the nozzels, it rapidly expands due to a pressure change and heat.
After a few tenth of a second after you hit the button, you will feel the full force of the NOS. It is no longer expanding as much in your intake, resulting in more liquid NOS ingested by your engine. More Power.  I feel very sorry for your friend, but I don't think it was due to the NOS system by N.O.S..Most if not all NOS systems on the market should be pretty well design, it is just up to you to install and tune it correctly.
Just an Opinion.
Mike Y.
On Wed, 12 Nov 1997 [email protected] wrote:

> I HAVE FRIENDS THAT HAVE NOS SYSTEMS AND MANY THINGS HAVE GONE WRONG SUCH AS BLOWN SOLENOIDS AND VERY SEVERE BACKFIRES. NITROUS EXPRESS HAS A MUCH BETTER NOZZLE THAN NOS HAS THEY PUT OUT MORE HP WITH LESS NITROUS INJECTION WHICH IS A VERY GOOD THING. MY FRIEND HAD A MR2 TURBO WITH A NOS SYSTEM AND IT BACKFIRED AND CAUGHT HIS AIR FILTER ON FIRE AND HE   COULDNT PUT IT OUT AND HIS WHOLE CAR WENT UP IN FLAMES. JUST MY OPINION. I HAVENT HAD ANY BAD EXPERIENCE WITH THE NITROUS EXPRESS SYSTEM.

An Installation on a 95 240

Shawn thanks for the reply back, concerning nos installation i still lack the wiring of the micro-switch and solenoids and the arming switch. I mounted the bottle to the right side of the trunk to the board that covers your spare tire. I drilled a hole to route the line through the board(making the hole large enough to slide the line witth ease in case you do have to get to that pretty spare). In the bed of the trunk there are several grommets you can choose to route your line. I followed the fuel lines throughout the car to the engine department. I cut the line to fit the car so i could install the inline nitrous filter in the engine compartment(where it is pretty to look at). The solenoids i mounted on the right side on the strut tower(lower) I found a grommet and removed it and installed a bolt and on the backside i installed a large washer to cover the hole. You cant see the washer when the car is down jacked. I will tell you further details if needed. The spray nozzle i put in the intake hose itself. The vacuum hose installation went well with the exception in disconnected the fuel pressure at the intake plenum instead of at the fuel pressure regulator itself(the guys at NOS said it would work as well) I went ahead and installed the fuel pressure safety switch between the fuel filter and the fuel rail. The microswitch will mount easily to the throttle stop inside the car(the black plastic piece that runs in contact with the throttle) you mount the switch on top lying sideways the throttle hits it just perfect for operation and no interference with daily driving. Any more questions just contact me i will be glad to help out in any way, and keep the 240SX club goin'

Paul Wallace

Question 2:

> what would make the direct port more reliable than the dry manifold Mike? I just had Christopher tell me all afternoon that with a stock system a 65 shot would be the max. You've opened up another can of worms on me, and i've got to know if you know what you're talking about. I value all of you guys' advice, but i want to make sure that the advice i get is true? pls. help?
glynn

Re. 1

Actually the most reliable method would be using the JWT computer to add the extra fuel and the Nitrous system to add the Nitrous. But this method is limited by the size of your injectors and $$$$$. Because the size of your injectors, 65hp is the safe limit. If you upgrade the injectors and all applicable hardware with 300ZX injectors, you can easily run 100hp. If you go with 550 injectors and a new fuel rail and a fuel pump, then you can run 150hp. After this point I would not upgrade the system.

The dry system is "safe" till about 30-40hp. Since it increases fuel pressure to increase fuel fed to the engine it is the most dangerous, especially on a 240 where the Nissan pump does not like the surge in fuel rail pressure. I do not recommend this method.

Which brings us to the wet kit. This is the most cost effective and relativley (sp) "safe" method to use. If you use a single fogger, I would run the Nitrous express jet that atomizes the fuel the best. Remember your intake maniflod was not made to distribute fuel equally so the better you can atomize the fuel the better. With this method, I would not run more that 100hp as each cylinder does not 'see' the same amount of fuel/nitrous. If you go direct port (a nozzle in each runner), the fuel/Nitrous is distributed evenly and you can go up to 150hp.

Some tips.

- If you go with more that 100hp, then you NEED TO UPGRADE YOUR FUEL PUMP. Also with more than 100shot, I recommend some kind of timing retard like the MSD multi-step retard that retards timing when you hit the Nitrous.

- The single biggest factor of reliablilty will be the quality of your install. Make sure whoever is doing it knows what they are doing.

One last thing, I'd also recommend a RPM window box that limits Nitrous in a certain RPM window. The bigger the shot, the higher in the rpm band you want to start. Also the it would protect you from over revving (like in a mis-shift)

any more ? email me directly.

Hope that helps,
Mike Lee
[email protected]
93 S13 turbo

Question 3 and Responce:

> I can appreciate everyone saying that for levels over 65-75 shots of
> nitrous you need a larger fuel supply, but my question is how does
> everyone verify this ?

I can say it's pretty "safe" at 60-70hp, but that is not the limit of our fuel pumps. I am currently running on a 100hp Direct Port Wet Kit, and no problems yet.

> Do you run mixture meter ? (Ours we build are called Fargraphs, and I've
> used these pint sized fuel richness meters for years, and trust them
> with my life... but curious as to others that run nitrous, how have you
> verified the break point for the stock pump.)

I don't have a meter to try to figure out if I'm running rich or lean, but I do have a few sets of new Spark Plugs. Every time I'm ready to test out a new jetting, I install a set of new NGK plugs and go for a run. After the run, I take the plugs out and check for carbon,metal specks, or glaze. And from looking at the plugs, I can get a pretty good idea of what's going on inside the combustion chamber.

> Rest of gang with nitrous experience: Did you try the stock pump, or
> did you just change it on advice/caution/warning/rumour....
> Has anybody looked at adding a secondary pump just to feed the nitrous
> solenoid? You just tap off your fuel rail to supply fuel to the
> solenoid, so there's always pressure there from the rail, so why not run
> an auxiliary F.I. pump off of something cheap like a 280ZX turbo or
> something more volume mainstream, and plumb a seperate line to the
> solenoid. Does the solenoid itself control volume and flow ? Or is it
> strictly dependant on the nozzle itself ?

Yes, you can have an aux. pump along with a small fuel cell hooked up in the front to feed the NOS setup. I've considered that, but it just adds more complications, which I don't need.

> Mike Lee: you said a 75 shot kit is fine on the stock motor ? Stock
> injector and pump ?... no JWT computer upgrade ? Did you ever monitor
> your initial kit ? The kit I installed on the 850Turbo wagon was a very
> simple kit that I plumbed into the intake before the throttle body, and
> had 2 solenoids, 1 for nitrous, the other for fuel. I assume this is a
> "dry" kit ?

I've got 100hp on stock injectors,pump, and no JWT ECU. Wet Kit.

> I'm confused, how does this differ from a "wet" kit ? (excuse me, cuz
> I'm a dumb road racer who never played with laughing gas....)

A wet kit uses a fogger nozzle to inject fuel and NOS together. This way, it does not rely on your stock injectors to feed more fuel. And a direct port system has one fogger at each cyl. This is the best NOS setup, because it delivers even amount of fuel and NOS to each cyl.

> Gang: bottle heaters are necessary to get consistant power, and more
> out of each bottle fill ?

Yes, a bottle heater will keep the presure stable through out runs. Constant pressure = constant flow.

> For those that have hatchbacks, where did you mount the bottle ? Isn't
> it kinda tight to plumb the line down in the left rear of the hatch ?

My bottle is right in the middle of the trunk. Check out a picture at userwww.sfsu.edu/~dkny

Mike Yuan

More Nos Questions/Solutions

Well a couple days ago I e-mailed Nitrous express, still no response. I'm looking to get a 100Hp or less kit. One that injects into each cylinder. What other mods go along with it? I know with a turbo set-up you want the largest possible exhaust, what goes along with NOS? I read on the list that a upgraded ignition may help. Also, I know that NOS has come along way, but why dont more  people use it? Is the chance of blowing an engine still that bad?I plan on having someone else install it, since drilling holes into the intake is required, correct?  Also, I heard getting a rich/lean gauge is a good idea. Where the heck do I runthe wires to? The rich/lean sensor?

Just looking for some start up info, guess I'll head down to the Public Library. And I think I'm not refering to the correct gas....NOS is a company...NO2 is the gas?

Thanks,
-Doug

Answer #1

> Well a couple days ago I e-mailed Nitrous express, still no response. I'm looking to get a 100Hp or less kit. One that injects into each cylinder. What other mods go along with it?

Larger fuel pump, and fuel pressure regulator.........Ray ? Mike ?

> I know with a turbo set-up you want the largest possible exhaust, what goes along with NOS?

Decent sized 2.5" helps.

> I read on the list that a upgraded ignition may help.

On 100 shot, the stock ignition should be fine. 150+ and it may help.

> Also, I know that NOS has come along way, but why dont more people use it?

EXPENSIVE per use. I have a friend who ran it in his Mustang, and he got tired of only getting 2/3- 3/4 of the bottle use (he didn't have a bottle heater) and only maybe 8 hits on his modified 5.0 litre. Jeff, the fellow in my shop with the 300ZX we're doing up, ran it on his Civic. He used to go through $300-$400 a month worth of nitrous. That and 2 stock civic motors. I have a kit sitting from Eton's Volvo I can use.... that's why I never opted for it. $65 per bottle fill... and maybe 8-10 good stoplight races and that's it. Not good enough for me. Eton may run it to spool up his A4, and I MAY run it on my 240.... if I'm unhappy with the spool time..... but I doubt it.

> Is the chance of blowing an engine still that bad?

Yes. You lean it out and it will detonate. NOS is hard on the bottom end of motors too.I think so long as you follow decent guidlines, and don't overjet on the NOS, you'll be fine. You just have to be very careful when you're running hard in 4th and 5th gear....you gotta watch for excessively lean conditions. NOS is fun, but like anything, it's addictive, and the more you use it, the more you want. That's where the turbo is awesome.... it's always there when you want it, and it won't cost you more to use it.

> I plan on having someone else install it, since drilling holes into the intake is required, correct?

Yes and no. A simple universal kit would stick the fuel/nos fogger into the intake just before the throttle body. The direct unit would drill into the intake and epoxy them in. You should take the intake off, or you risk getting aluminum shavings into the motor.Ray ?, you take your manifold off to install yours ?

> Also, I heard getting a rich/lean gauge is a good idea. Where the heck do I run the wires to? The rich/lean sensor?

The O2 sensor. Yes, for any added items such as cams, NOS, turbo, a mixture richness meter is excellent. I run them on ALL our cars, including my tow vehicle. K&N makes them, Halmeter does, SDS...... and Andy has them made up for us locally too. Ours are very very small.

> Just looking for some start up info, guess I'll head down to the Public Library. And I think I'm not refering to the correct gas....NOS is a company...NO2 is the gas?
> Thanks,
> -Doug

Best to get feedback from those on the list who ran it...Mike Lee, and Ray L are those that come to mind to me as the "gas" experts.

don

Answer #2

>> Well a couple days ago I e-mailed Nitrous express, still no response. I'm looking to get a 100Hp or less kit. One that injects into each cylinder. What other mods go along with it?
>
>Larger fuel pump, and fuel pressure regulator.........Ray ? Mike ?

If you're planning on doing 100hp or less, the stock 240 fuel pump will be OK. I'm running 100HP Direct Port with a completely stock fuel system. No regulator needed.

>> I know with a turbo set-up you want the largest possible exhaust, what goes along with NOS?
>
>Decent sized 2.5" helps.

I think 2.5" is fine. Any larger, you'll suffer drivability(low end) when you're off the bottle.

>> I read on the list that a upgraded ignition may help.
>
>On 100 shot, the stock ignition should be fine. 150+ and it may help.

The stock ignition system is pretty good on our cars already, but to insure a high-power spark to all cyln. all the time, an upgraded ign. is extra insurance.

>> Also, I know that NOS has come along way, but why dont more people use it?
>
>EXPENSIVE per use. I have a friend who ran it in his Mustang, and he got tired of

Expensive is right. If you want power all the time, NOS isn't the way to go. If you just want to use it at the strip or an ocasional stop light, it's OK. I cost me $40 to refill a 10lb bottle good for about 10 hits.

>> Is the chance of blowing an engine still that bad?

I think this is mainly myth that NOS "Blows you engine up." Back in the old days of muscle cars, when technology was not as advance as today, drivers would jet some crazy amounts of NOS with some fairly primative equipment, and the rest is history.... Today with larger bottle valves, more advance solenoids, better atomizing NOS jets and computers, it's quite safe IF you do it RIGHT. And with the abundance of books and resources, it shouldn't be hard.

>> I plan on having someone else install it, since drilling holes into the intake is required, correct?
>
> The direct unit would drill into the intake and epoxy them in. You should take the intake off, or you risk getting aluminum shavings into the motor.Ray ?, you take your manifold off to install yours ?

Yes you have to take off the manifold to have the holes drilled and tapped. There is no way to prevent the shavings from falling into the intake. And while you're in there you might want to remove your 2nd Butterfly vavles.

I have pictures of my 100hp Direct Port Wet NOS system on my web page at [userwww.dkny.sfsu.edu] There is no write up on the install, but I have a NOS book that explaines NOS from A-Z, including install techniques. I'll sell it to ya for $10.

Mike Yuan

Answer #3

I did make a few runs with the 150HP setting with the stock pump and ran really, really rich to the point where I had a huge backfire blowing my air filter right off of the stack and denting my hood. I dont really recommend the stock pump over 100HP. I had a single fogger right before my throttle body on my wet kit. This kit was very efficient. 75HP claim made 74HP at the wheels on the Nitrous Express single fogger kit. 50HP claim made 38HP to the rear wheels with a direct port NOS kit. The ignition is pretty important, I have never run the stock ignition before and make sure you get plugs that are 1 or 2 steps colder. If I find my old plugs I will put up a picture on my webpage of how badly I would melt them after each run. I would definately recommend Autolite plugs since those can take more of a beating

Ray

WHAT NOS KIT TO INSTALL ON A 89' 240SX

I HAVE INSTALLED A NOS KIT 5030FI, CONTROLLED BY A JACOBS MASTERMIND CONTROLLER, AND USING A JACOBS IGNITION PACK. THE MASTERMIND CONTROLS THE NOS IN EVERY WAY THAT COULD HARM YOUR ENGINE(PLUS PROGRESSIVE CONTROL). I  USE A 70SHOT AND HAVE RUN A BEST TIME OF 14.7 @95MPH, ON STREET TIRES. I WOULD STRONGLY SUGGEST USING A FUEL PRESSURE SENSOR(WHICH THE MASTERMIND TAKES A SIGNAL FROM IF FUEL PRESSURE DROPS AND SHUTS THE NOS OFF). I HAVE HAD GREAT RESULTS FROM NOS, AND WITH A 10LB TANK CAN GET 12-15 1/4 MILE RUNS IN. THE ONLY DOWN SIDE IS THAT NOS IS EXPENSIVE, AND THE TANK DOES NOT LAST LONG ON THE STREET. I HAVE USED 12, 10LB TANKS SO FAR, AND THE ENGINE IS NO WORSE FOR WEAR. I AM GOING TO INSTALL THE 100SHOT JETS HIS YEAR AND WE WILL SEE WHAT HAPPENS. ONE MORE HINT,  ALWAYS USE INLINE FILTERS ON THE NOS AND FUEL.

adam hutchinson
Email: [email protected]